Estimated time of implementation: at Iosif's arrival.

Coefficient of rise in price will be changed from 4 to 6.
Existing technology levels for humans and tosses will be recalculated according to new prices:
· for levels 4-7: -1 level,
· for levels 8-11: -2 levels,
· for levels 12-13: -3 levels.
Satellite count supported by the technology would be reduced to 3 per level. Prenium users would get x3 satellite count, instead of +10.

For xerj the technology will become unavailable, with 50% of its old total cost compensated. Object limit will be determined by maximum level of Spire, each 3 levels giving same bonus as 1 level of technology. Spire's cost will be changed slightly (lower starting cost, CRP going up from 1.7 to 1.8), but without recalculation of existing levels.
Unit spawning requirements will be transferred from Spire to other buildings/evolutions.

In a week before technology levels are recalculated, players will be given an ability to “decolonize” some of their planets, refunding some of the resources spent on them. A new option will be added in planet control menu, analogous to “abandon planet”, which upon usage will take 50% of total cost of everything producible — buildings, ships and defenses — and transfer that as resources to your capital before completing the abandoning. Items and raw resources will be transferred as is. Total amount of resulting resources and items will be listed in planet control menu. This new option will be accesible for a month.
Amount of “decolonizations” will be determined by old level of Colonization technology:
· for levels 4-7: 1 decolonization,
· for levels 8-11: 2 decolonizations,
· for levels 12-13: 3 decolonizations.
None of your objects will be deleted automatically, but after the technology levels are recalculated you can be affected by overpopulation if you have objects not fitting into new limits.

Along with decolonization, there would be an ability to relocate planets and alliance stations (satellites), available to Premium users. To relocate a planet, it's destination coordinates must be as empty as possible (a void, unknown planet or abandoned planet, no satellites or fleets). Relocation fee would be 1000 HC.

UncleanOne, The advertizing for this game said to come explore planets, 3d fight and empire building. So, research for having a new planet to colonise is resource heavy, like anything you try to do in this game, it's so time consuming. I'ts a pvp game! well, there is no way to actually crush or conquer an adversary, just to give him a slap on the wrist, if you are lucky enough to catch his fleets. So, I'm wondering when the empire building is going to start? 4x the resource per new level to colonise a planet is already ridicously high, even your 2x stuff in research is totally abusive and unsustenable for anyonw who really want to play this as a main game (for whatever reason, i have no clue). Now you are bring it up to 5X and we actually are going to lose a planet or 2? well done, well done. I could also talk about the number of places to build stuff, i mean, it's not like the colony ships captain would land and start a colony on the worst possible part of a planet, he would surely chose wisely, no? Anyway, I'm a casual player so, it dosen't really bother me, I'm mainly here to talk with people. Because clearly, the game clearly dosen't deliver a tenth of what the advertising said. See? it is written, create an empire!! [img]https://preview.redd.it/ad-for-a-horrid-knockoff-mobile-game-with-a-very-st
range-v0-5trdj67gn7la1.png?auto=webp&s=3f5a87c32333e31dca5ca62ad6806f8dbb745694[
/img]

Magisteria, don't worry with basic math I can show you by how much it is in our favor. Take like 100 and multiply it by 5.5 for humans, you get first level of colonisation will cost 550 while for zerg it will be 100x1.7=170X1.7=289X1.7=491. So even on first level, we, zergs, have a small resource advantage, but at level 10, it will have cost 460 536 658 to our measly 166 771 132 resources. that is less than half of what humans and toss have to gather to have the same level of colonisation. See? it is wonderful for us. I will lose 2 planets when they will implemente it but to get them back it will cost me a fraction of it. Now to think about it, we do get a refund for the resource we put into colonisation tech, right? i think it will cover almost all our spire upgrade to get back to our previous number of planet. Not to mention, if you look, first level of spire is
Cost of the 1st level spire is 800 metal 100 mineral 250 vespene while colonisation start at 500 metal 1000 mineral 500 vespene. And we all know that metal is easy to come by and vespene hard to have our stock pile grow fast. Since i made the example with a base of 100 total resource, you can see how good we have it. Starting resource needed for colonisation including the 3 types is 2000 for humans and toss whilw we start with 1350.
Do you see now how good we have it by being a zerg and how screwed humans and toss are? just for the 10th level the humans will have to spend 4 605 366 580 mineral to our 166 771 132 mineral for our last level you can add all the level and have a final number on mineral of 5 628 781 160 to our 405 015 464. If you combine ALL metal, mineral and vespene you get those total spent from start to level 10 is 11 257 562 320 to our 5 467 708 763 wich is less than half. Zurg rules!! :D

UncleanOne, I went to see the link you put, owner wishes? here they wrote about fun, i don't see a lot of people finding fun the changes. Also it is not really encouraging how the changes are affecting players, it is hard to encourage players to create empire when using such stiff rise in cost to colonise one more planet and now the change will rob people of the time they put in gathering resources and time put to upgrade the building in the planets.

0. The Declaration of the beginning
We, the founders of the project Xcraft, begin the creation of a new real-time strategy, which will attract people with thoughts about distant worlds and other civilizations from infinite space; encourage them to create the empires of their own consisting of several planets. We want to deliver the fun to our users with our work. We want to give them relax and joy of communicating, good planning and victories.

This is exactly how it works. 3 levels of spire do not have CRP equivalent of 1.7^3. 3rd level from the current has, but I still need to build 1st and 2nd before 3rd, right? If up to level x I paied 100 units, then to get to level of x+3 (which is next planet) I need to pay:
x+1 -> 100*1.7
x+2 -> (100*1.7)*1.7
x+3 -> ((100*1.7)*1.7)*1.7

100*1.7 + (100*1.7)*1.7 + ((100*1.7)*1.7)*1.7 = 950.3 giving CRP 9.5 in terms of gaining additional slot for planet.

Now you show that is cheaper for xerj. True at some point, because of different initial costs, but in the long term the sum of geometric progress is given by:

initial_cost * (1-CRP^level)/(1-CRP)

will always follow CRP^n and not initial_cost. Here some plots for the difference to play with. a,b will be initial costs, n number of planet slots:
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+y%3D+a*%281-9.5%5Ex%29%2F%281-9.5%29+-
+b*%281-5.5%5Ex%29%2F%281-5.5%29%2C+x+in+%5B1%2C+10%5D

Said all that it might be that within resonably accessable range of levels, like you say, it's mostly fair. But in hyphotetical long term it is for sure not.

No, the current Spire has a problem of high initial costs, which then are becoming more comparable with tech and cheaper after level 30. Because the effective exponent for Spire is lower than the exponent for the new tech.
You gave a formula, let's apply it (I've shortened some variables):
Cost(L) = I*(1-q^L)/(1-q)
Cost(L+3) = I*(1-q^(L+3))/(1-q) = I/(1-q) - I*q^(L+3)/(1-q) = I/(1-q) - I*q^L*q^3/(1-q) = q^3*(I/(q^3*(1-q)) - I*q^L/(1-q)) = q^3*(I/(1-q) - I*q^L/(1-q) - I/(1-q) - I/(q^3*(1-q))) = q^3*(I*(1-q^L)/(1-q) - I*(q^3+1)/(q^3*(1-q))) ≈ q^3*Cost(L)
Blue part is not proprotional to level, and becomes insignificant as level goes up, so the ratio of costs for levels L+n and L would be q^n.



If up to level x you paid 100 units, that doesn't mean level x itself costs 100 units. E.g. if x=3 and you paid 100 total for levels 1, 2 and 3, their costs were something like 18, 30 and 52, so for the next 3 levels you'll have to pay
x+1 -> 52*1.7=88.4
x+2 -> 88.4*1.7=150
x+3 -> 150*1.7=255
With total cost of these 3 levels being 88+150+255=493, which is awfully close to 1.7^3 times 100.

I appreciate people checking my math, but I still believe I'm right in this case.

UncleanOne,

I still call it stealing. Because I already had this level of Colonization.
Now you take it away and you compensate almost nothing.

Example for my Xery with Colonization Level 9 and Spire at 17.



you or your owner want to force us to spend a lot of money to get the same level of planets back.

Thats the idea behind all this.

Guys I'm fairly new to the game and forum, so i don't have much experience with the dynamics here.
But from what i read there seems to be an ongoing disconnect.

Players feel that they have the value of their time being taking by the Administration and the administration is implementing changing to try to shoot for the middle ground of profit and player fairness.

Worst case scenario the Hardcore long term and powerful players could just nuke the whales in their alliances and quit the game or the devs could shut out the players they don't see as dissenting healthily but complaining or shut down the game altogether.

The problem with this update besides the math and the player discontent is it hasn't really been tried yet, can't it be tried on a trial basis with a rollback or corrections later for player experience across the board?

same with player suggestion and feedback uncleanone has simple logically straightforward answers to most questions, it can come off the wrong way for someone who already feels discontent with the game. Even still it seems to be devil may cry attitude to dealing with player complaints, it still has it's merits.

Players attacking Admins who don't make the big calls won't help the situation either if your discontent roll back your funding from your alliance or quit the game.

Thoughts from a newbie.

Btw. I enjoy this game I've had fun building thus far it has a ton of detail and gives the command and conquer feel from the nineties. It also has a ton of User Interface things that could be improved, but I'll leave that for later.

Maybe trial period it, heck I'm just here trying out too.

Enjoy the talks though people are obviously passionate about playing this thing right!

Yes!!! But you started from "52" - price of the last level, upgrade 3 levels and get "493".
And what is your "Coefficient of a rise in price"???
493/52= ??? = 9,480769231 ~ 9.5
Did you see difference between 9.5 and 1.7^3 ???

This was indeed confusing. I should have said "if for the last upgrade to get planet I paid 100". Still, if CRP of level of spire is 1.7 and 3 levels are needed to get planet it means CRP for planet is 9.5.
And now you say current spire has problem of high initil cost. Initial cost of spire is way less then initial cost of tech (at least for xerj).

In your calculations you are showing Cost(L+3). What you should check is Cost(L+1) + Cost(L+2) + Cost(L+3) because this is cost required to bump number of planets using spire. It's what I am trying to point out from the very first post.

We're talking about 3 levels because the bonus will be given each 3 levels. And now you're suddenly comparing total cost of levels (x+3, x+2, x+1) with cost of level x, instead of cost of levels (x, x-1, x-2) that were required to get previous bonus? That's not right.



Same as above. If for the last upgrade to get planet you paid 100, this means you paid 100 for previous 3 levels. You're getting the wrong number because you're comparing cost of next 3 levels to a cost of one previous level, instead of 3 previous levels.



Initial cost for Spire is the total cost of it's first 3 levels, which is higher than the cost of tech's first level.

I've added tables for new expected costs for both ColTech and Spire, please check these to see whether we're discriminating against zerg.

I agree. At the very least "Decolonise" needs to state what resources you will get, where and when BEFORE you push the button to execute the task so you can prepare and come back and press the button then. It would be more user-friendly to be able to decide where the resources go as the Capital may be the last place you want it. As suggested above, some form of token or Medal to allow resources to be released in smaller batches on the active object would be a much fairer way of doing it than a massive dump. After all, we never had a massive dump of resources to instantly build up a planet originally, we had to scour the universe, steal from the enemy or buy it on the market over months (if not years)

People here obviously love this game.
The whole point of this update is to reduce the number of planets of every players, not just set higher price to colonization.
I just paid 32m, 65m, 32m to have a 10th planet, you will refund a lot less than that : 21m, 43m, 21m and I'll have to spend 69m, 8m, 21m if I wanna have 8 planets. This is unfair.

8 planets gonna be almost limit in this game. Why having a 9th planet ? the cost for 9th planet : 378m, 47m, 118m
My best planet having a MONTHLY production of 7m metal, it would take more than 4 years to make it worth, still worth on long term but it's really cutting the fun there.

Have you any thought about inactives players (and those who will stop with this update) ? They will also have the debuff of production. Many new players can grow by looting on inactives. They'll get nothing with this update. Unfair for them.

Why every update seems to have a primary goal : remove fun from game ? There is an absolute nothing good nor fun for players in this update. Most of previous update made de game less and less fun. I played games where Devs where happy to present exciting new things that gives a better game experience. In this game, look like the lab is to see how much pain you can make to players without have them leaving...

New CRP will be 6, not 5.5. Spire's cost would also change, but no existing levels will be recalculated.
Opening post was updated with new details.

I hope that that special medal you talking about now, can be split in smaller pieces, like say about 200 K per part

You've updated way more than that!!!

This was the original definition


This is the new definition

The levels have been changed. So plans and indeed actions that players have made/taken based on the original announcement are now invalid!

On my Xerj I kicked off a Colonisation 9 research upgrade, purely so that I could get the second decolonisation opportunity to get full value from dropping a second planet rather than abandoning
With this change in definition I need not have done that and I have wasted 32.8M Metal, 65.5M Minerals and 32.8M Vespene - Please provide compensation
If the change goes ahead this research provides no value other than the extra decolonisation opportunity as the research will no longer exist for Xerj

If you want a discussion to refine a change don't make it an announcement as though it's a firm change!

The recalculation rules were made that way so new costs would be as close to old as possible. Since new costs have changed, recalculation rules had to be redone too.



I'm sorry that our breaking change has already had a breaking change. But with all the political powers struggling to push their vision, things like these are hard to avoid.
(Imagine the Senate winning in couple of weeks and leaving all top zergs with useless lvl30 Spires…)

Thanks, but I can't build anything with apologies.
Having made the definition change there should be compensation of the full research cost (32.8M Metal, 65.5M Minerals and 32.8M Vespene) made redundant by the definition change


I was feeling quite positive yesterday about there being an announcement to allow players to plan and take action for a major change (whether I like the change or not doesn't matter)
Now my feelings are entirely negative because plans made and executed have been disrupted and I can have no confidence in what the change that eventually gets implemented (if it does) will be

All the discussion should have been BEFORE the announcement or else what is the point of the announcement at all?


Which is why you don't make an Announcement before the change has been defined and discussed and any Senate objections considered.
There has already been a Senate vote currently sitting at 58 votes to 3 in favour of cancelling the change (voting ends 2024-09-10 19:00).
As there are 100 Senators the outcome cannot be anything other than a motion to stop the change.
Do I have any confidence that this vote will mean the change doesn't go ahead...No...it will just be re-shaped in ways I have no ability to predict.

Yes! You are tottally right, my bad.

Extra changes from administration:
· no compensation for human and toss players for technology recalculation,
· compensation for decolonization reduced to 50%,
· severely reduced amount of satellites allowed,
· temporary ability to relocate planets for Premium users.

UncleanOne, what are u doing making the change even more bad why waste energy on it senate has already vote 65 to stop it I have to watch what I say don't want another ban for speaking my mind and what the players feel

Robie7979, I know you are passionate for the game, but the adminstration created a project, a donation game called where, when, what will be cut.
You are better off spending your surplus money elsewhere and just watch.